What has Brent done to mitigate his ADD? I was with one of his relatives the day he was charged with the bombings, and she was totally shocked & absolutely certain he had nothing to do with it. In Part 5, we explore the history surrounding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham(one of the primary scriptural texts for the LDS Church). Growing up I only had positive interactions with his beautiful wife and kids. So sorry for the delay!!!! !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. Im not saying you need to have spiritual experiences to validate your work by any means if the facts are facts, but a higher power confirmation always helps. Its very sunny in London today and Ive listened too all eleven hours of this interview. Contributions. Youve used it well Brent. I was curious about the book that Brent photocopied from the archives. Examples would be projects at the Serpent Mounds in Ohio, linguists studying things like Native Americans singing in a language that seemed close to Hebrew,archaeological digs in latin America that were obviously BOM related, etc. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. In the past, we often got snippets of information in The Church News, :( Will re-record hopefully soon! Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. Brent, thanks so much for sharing your tender moments as well. Brent, a sophomore at the University of Iowa, completed a very hectic. Brent Metcalf was a bad dude in high school. She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) This is what led me here! I was only 8 when Steve died, so I just remember his smiling face and that everyone, especially my parents, just loved him. Can you offer any insight to this? Please let us know. So, based on Krakauers shared experience, it sounds like the answer is no, Hofmann doesnt do interviews. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I hope to move on some day as well. Thank you so much for the story and the insights. It seems there is some serious self deception that is required to work around these problems that are creating riffs in families, as well as individual conflicts of spiritual dissonance for good members and leaders of the church. As Jeremy Runnells (a la Kirby Ferguson) has said, everythings a remix. Excellent question. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? The view of the Lamb on mount Sion gave me joy unspeakable and full of glory. I was in a mission conference in Bolivia when Steves younger brother was called out and told of the murder. The Version table provides details related to the release that this issue/RFE will be addressed. According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. Will there be more? Looking around me, every object was changed, and a bright glory appeared on everything. Yes! I just saw the Netflix Documentary last night. I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. I remember how the church/BYU was trying to treat this as a non-issue. I would include many of the arguments given by the critics as well. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: He knew forger and bomber Mark Hofmann personally. Andrew, Joseph Smith dictated the story of princess Katumin and her regal father Onitas to his scribes Oliver Cowdery and William W. Phelps, who recorded the tale in two small notebooks. Elbert once quipped, The Open Door Club has become the 7th East Press!. You can have a PhD and still not have great knowledge. @BHMetcalf. It was torturous turning out essays to suit a particular lecturers preferences in order to gain high marks. Its the same adhominem from his whole establishment that shows how much they think they own the intellectual world. It is his sixth season overall with the Cyclones after serving as the volunteer assistant for the 2017-18 season. These other people that had experiences dont seem to have a similar backlash evident. Although he refused to read her book, a respected Mormon scholar named J. Reuben Clark asked the Deseret News to publish his long review of No Man Knows My History. This was an awesome interview. Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. If Catholicism were ultimately true, for example, then in the final accounting its dogmatic claims would not be hamstringing- they would serve as a clarifying lens through which to analyze historical questions, a lens which helps the believing scholar from wasting his time investigating a false path. Im definitely a fan. And a small footnote: Many of these original founders had been part of an on-campus group, called the Open Door Club. On the term translation, JS promoted his ancient texts as translations in the traditional sense. What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? You are hesitant to answer no evil speaking on what you cant say right ;). An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. brent metcalfe excommunicated. [8] Personal life [ edit] Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. I appreciate the details of Brents experience. What do you attribute this decline to? document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Fantastic interviews. Brenten "Brent" Metcalfe joined NW3C after working in law enforcement for over 13 years. I've debated whether or not I should write about this, as I'm well aware the reception may be inflammatory, however it's something I'd like to get off my chest. I may have a chance to look for it next week, but Im not promising anything. Doxey denied asking about Metcalfe. He had not let on that the 7th East Press was his brainchild. Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. Or even presenting the center view? o David Wright was excommunicated for apostasy in April 1994 for his nontraditional views on Mormon scripture as exhibited in essays like his chapter in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. Hamblin Methodological discussions have become commonplace in Mormon studies. [1], In the early 1980s, Metcalfe contributed to the Seventh East Press and Sunstone, while at the same time worked as a security guard at the Church Office Building of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Dave, Ive planned on publishing a book for years; but Ive decided to publish a series of articles first that the book will build upon. Awesome. What has been the ramifications to your excommunication among other family members? John Are you done interviewing faithful members or promoting faithful stories? Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. He is their emotional support and Sue's constant companion, her voice, advocate and her angel. How would it be different from other books that deal with the same subject? I also appreciate your parting words. Thanks again for your contribution to Mormon Studies and particularly for your diplomatic engagement with your critics. They are in a tough spot. This is one of the best MS interviews I have heard so far. It would have helped me a lot to know I was not alone. 100% CAUCASIAN Our ethnicity data indicates the majority is Caucasian. I think that the Salt Lake LDS church is concerned with becoming the RLDS church, which has changed its narrative to a very noncompelling one, and about 80% of its members have left. accounting for llc member buyout; black barber shops chicago; otto ohlendorf descendants; 97 4runner brake bleeding; Freundschaft aufhoren: zu welchem Zeitpunkt sera Semantik Starke & genau so wie parece fair ist und bleibt 7 czerwca 2022. [5][6], According to the Deseret News, the response from the apologetic community was "vitriolic. About a year or so ago when I finally left the church I looked him up to get advice and catch up on old times. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. I just got done reading the book Mormon murders. From your perspective, what are the 3-5 best pieces of evidence for the historicity of the bom? It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. Priestly and monastic vocations have dropped through the floor, sexual abuse has skyrocketed (its not just that it was always happening but was exposed recently, it is pretty clear that sex abuse itself has gone way up post Vatican II), church attendance is way down, retention rates among youth have plummeted- one could go on. Ive always wondered why the most ardently orthodox and pious seem to have the least faith in the divinity and omnipotence of the Lords plan. Phooey to that. But Ashment, a fellow member of the church, said he was disgusted with those who publicly protested the church action at a rally for Murphy on Salt Lake City's Main Street plaza Sunday night. Wrestling for coach Roy Hall at Davison High School in Michigan, Metcalf finished as arguably the #1 overall recruit with a career record of 228-0 with . On acquiring a PhD, after a year of university, apart from a lack of finances, I quickly noticed that the degree factory isnt a reflection on ones intelligence. Afraid that Brent would go public with the contradictory information, the LDS church terminated him as a member. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The October 1985 bombings that killed two individuals and severely injured another was initially assumed to be related to a financial business. How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? Riveting stuff. I struggled in school with learning how to read for years and this resulted in me developing crippling anxiety any time I was aced to read in public. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. He has also served in the United States Air Force (Air National Guard) since 2004. So glad Brent. Joseph didnt go like a lamb to the slaughter in burning down personal property he broke the law in a major way. Brent did Jerald make an official overture to church leadership regarding Hofmann being a fraud? In these two episodes we discuss: 1) The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's. Brent most recently served with the Information Security/Communication Security with the Wyoming Army National Guard as an IT Specialist. the tall man aboriginal spirit; metadata api request failed: component conversion failed: file_ended; caleb foote sandlot In it, Metcalfe himself wrote an essay that was the first to advance the Mosiah priority theory, or that Joseph Smith began dictating the Book of Mormon from the Book of Mosiah. God-belief has also been attributed partly to our brains evolved hyper-tendency to perceiveagency where none exists. What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? This doesn't mean that Metcalfe has accurately translated that theory into his study of things Mormon. We were not suppose to discuss the Temple, Blacks and Priesthood, and of course definitely not curtain parts of the church history such as polygamy and polyandry. She also noted that after JS none of the preceding Church leaders really got what he was trying to do/teach in this realm. 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? Just curious if there is a link that has information about what they discovered and why they were ex'd or disparaged. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_relics. In 1539 he was elected as an MP for the rst time and was appointed to serve in the King's Privy Chamber. I was going to ask the same thing. In another post Ill comment on the Mark Hoffman affair. Yes, thats the book, though the volume I perused was the first (1816) edition published in Portsmouth, NH. My mind was calm and at peace with God through the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world. Watch the full match. What a fascinating glimpse. What is not to love about Johns revelation of your worthy biceps? It was fascinating and enlightening to see the underbelly of ongoings between church leaders and members. What an amazing life Brent! Twitter. LDS was newly brought to her by a missionary before me. Metcalf served as the National Freestyle Developmental Coach prior to . Let me be equally clear that I dont believe that the BoAbr is an authentic translation of the papyri he possessed. Brent_Metcalfe 7 yr. ago To clarify 4blockhead's list. The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. Ron Priddis was my friend, and had recruited me to be a writer. As an atheist I am not without my own inconvenient truths. This is definitely a not-miss interview. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. If so, what will be the subject? Because researchers like me are not taken seriously by them, even if we have serious and significant contributions. So, considering all that they had been through, when Mark was named a suspect, Brent didnt even think twice before defending his friend on television. Hibbard later had a dream in which he again. As I went towards the house, this thought came into my mind, why do I feel so different from what I did a short time past : I am unspeakably happy and shall never see trouble again.. (I think that was my only disappointment, that Brent basically gave up on God because of an epiphany.). My question to Brent is during or after authoring/editing New Approaches to the Book Mormon, did he have other or similar spiritual experiences that confirmed the historical facts (which may be viewed as counter experiences to those earlier in the church)? In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. I am war weary defending truths that just dont appear true anymore. In Part 4, Brent examines some of the issues surrounding traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. Its likely that our paths could have crossed. https://signaturebookslibrary.org/?p=24440. pigella miraculous ladybug power. location 502, 899, 5027 of 9578, Last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, "The LDS intellectual community and church leadership: A contemporary chronology", BOOK OF MORMON SCHOLARS UNLEASH SALVO OF BARBS, "MAPPING BOOK OF MORMON HISTORICITY DEBATESPART I", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brent_Lee_Metcalfe&oldid=1129585083, This page was last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30. I havent listened to MS for several years now, but with Brent being interviewed I couldnt miss this, and I wasnt disappointed. It all depends on the depth of study one does. We may be on our own and need to create our own justice and future, but its possible that Providence does in fact sometimes intervene. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. Two more parts (3 & 4) to come. brent metcalfe excommunicated. The interview was superb and the insight into this extraordinary life was gifted. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. Certainly the reality, was different than the accepted narrative. This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. In his response, he controversially included an encrypted message spelling out "Metcalfe is Butthead." Brent had some trouble remembering the details of the events (so did I, and I wasnt there, although I read all of the relevant literature at the time), but I think this is a very good summing up by Jerald Tanner, Confessions of a White Salamander: https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm. If you ever get the chance to talk with Steve Christensens wife and/or Brent Metcalfe again, I would like to hear you explore this dichotomy with them as they are polar opposites. This is a rumor I heard. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. Im glad the church and BYU tried and I dont blame them for making the attempt to shore up the Book of Mormon. As soon as we can! Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. That was fascinating, thank you. I just shook my head to hear the tale of the magisterium giving you the boot, Brent. Learn how your comment data is processed. This was an excellent broadcast! This podcast inspired me to read the book Mormon Murders. D&C 76:2021). The name sounds so familiar (I was a Wandsworth baptism as a teenager in 77). Thats what I expected from church leaders.I meanSalamander spirit !! This negative sentiment is perhaps made up for by Hofmann's victims. The insight into the many corners of Mormonism important to us here was delicious. Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? John in wonderfully rare form in this oneI love it! Years ago, I attended a book reading and signing by Jon Krakauer in Marin County when he was promoting Under the Banner of Heaven. Ive always felt like crises of faith didnt quite describe my journey but Brent gave me the phrase that perfectly describes my experience. SALT LAKE CITY Egyptologist Ed Ashment sympathizes with Washington anthropologist for now has escaped excommunication from the LDS Church. Tom, have you considered allowing John to interview you? Your excommunication reveals more about your accusers than it says about you. Yet a solid and detailed examination oflhe pre suppositions, methods, arguments, and conclusions of the vari ous readings of the Book of Mormon would still be very use We had some technical difficulties. My epiphany also came suddenly, while driving, followed by a massive emotional experience. This was interesting all around. Awesome music, right? ping anser putter 85068 value; italian village commission. It instead discusses the fact that the LDS Church keeps some documents secret. He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. Powered by WordPress.com VIP. :). [9], As it began to be clearer that Hofmann was counterfeiting documents, Christensen and Kathy Sheets were murdered in an separate bombs created by Hofmann, and Hofmann himself was injured when a later bomb he created inadvertently exploded. I do remember after my baptismal interview having a strong feeling of love and admiration for him because someone so respected thought I was special too. He said that a response finally came not from Hofmann but from one of the Lafferty brothers who was apparently Hofmanns cell mate or on the same block or something like that. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. Lynn Jacobs was looked at carefully, I believe Brent Metcalf was looked at somewhat. If you were to interview Mark Hofmann, what would your top questions be? I will start my question with a short story to add some perspective. Jerald articulated his concerns in one of his ministrys publications. She is professor emeritus of history at Read more Heres a link to the Deseret News write up on the presentation: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. If youre familiar with image editing, straying from objectivity reminds me of having a color cast in a photo. hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. After all, he was the one who had introduced him to Steve Christensen, the first of Marks victims. All rights reserved. We should also mention that he has since been a key speaker at a conference hosted by Ex-Mormon Foundation and has given several interviews where he has detailed his lifes ups and downs. And if Christianity/Mormonism is *false*, then were being done a tremendous service in this falsification. I can hardly wait for the rest! After returning from Iraq after the 2nd deployment as a citizen soldier, I had the same epiphany as Brent; I learned that we are really on our own, there is no God. It is better thought of by non-Catholics (generally), but this has not translated into conversions or retention of cradle Catholics. I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. Thank you Brent and John. Im pretty sure I was standing next to Maxine. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (Podcast Episode 2014) on IMDb: Movies, TV, Celebs, and more. They even go so far as to claim that Zarahemla was directly across the river from Nauvoo, and that the waters of mormon are Big Springs, MO. If the Prophet cant see Hoffman as a fraud, why should anyone assume their Bishop/Stake president has any more ability in terms of divinely inspired discernment? Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. Your account of why you didnt pursue a doctorate was extremely touching to me as I absolutely admire those that can do the tedium of historical research. He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. And Im speaking as a believer- in the very traditional sense- in the Christian interpretation of the world. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! I just looked down at the paper and I felt this wave of total anxiety come over me and then all of a sudden it was like my brain stopped working and it felt like I was looking at a different language. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. Joyce Skabelund October 9, 1938 January 10, 2023 Our mother, grandma, and friend, Joyce Roth Skabelund, 84, departed this life on 10 January 2023. He told the story of writing at least a few letters to Hofmann in prison asking for an interview. Is there going to be a part 3? The message was discovered after his review had gone to press and had to be edited out. "BoMor" is a contraction preferred by Brent Metcalfe, who edited the book in which this paper appeared, and who likewise does not believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon -- Metcalfe was exxed I think sometime after the infamous September Six. St. Martins Press. Also, make sure your second recording matches the first. Few people had more of a front-row seat than Brent Metcalfe to the goings-on surrounding Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter, and the tragic events of October 1985 what would be dubbed as the Mormon Murders.. Thank you Brentyou are certainly one of the true Saturdays Warriors Thank you Mormonstories.org I am glad I came across your website! Without good research, ours is a heritage shallow in meaning. "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." Indeed, the trivial matters that many theists assert as claiming the attention of God (even as hell is meanwhilebreaking loose) is absurd evidently too absurd for many to even grasp. Well also talk in depth with Brent about how he has been able to construct a healthy and happy life outside of Mormonism. Part two was chilling as details we have never heard about Mark Hoffman, Steve Christiansen come out. Robert Ritner, Egyptologist, wrote a recent book the Joseph Smith Papyri in which he acknowledges your encouragement for that project. Lance is a Gnostic priest and has written and spoken extensively on the Gnostic and esoteric flavor of Joseph Smiths writings. I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. Long question, sorry ! Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. Growing up as a full believer, Brent followed the conventional routine and did the missions, after which he spent a lot of time in the historical archives of the Church, researching documents and working with the security department. Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. And much was going on. Many of the writers did become illustrious personalities, exactly as you point out. going back ten+ years when we first interacted online (message boards), but this interview gave me many more insights. Im sure there is a very good possibility that COB personnel would have been more suspect of Jerald, and any information he offered, than Hofmann. Thats not necessarily a problem, of course. They have shown time and time again that that is all that matters to them. Really, such a great family. Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. The weaker the church gets the better it gets and when it is completely impotent and ceases to exist it will be the best it can ever be. All things praised God with me. What are your views on how the Book of Mormon was created? John and I recorded an additional four hours (till 1 AM). I especially connected with his comments on ADD.
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