14c28n steel vs d2 14c28n steel vs d2

What it is: D2 is a carbon tool steel with a relatively high chromium content, prompting some to call it a "semi-stainless" steel. Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. 1) the cvn number is just that, a number. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. To reiterate the clearer part, I wonder if toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases as an edge gets thicker. It has a lower hardness and edge retention as compared to the 9Cr knife. So setting edge geometry for the type of knife and intended use is very important. Corrosion is not only cosmetic. Knife steel nerds have a great write up on 14c28n nik_was 2 yr. ago Your email address will not be published. in relation to hardness). Its not a regression line, it is just a line through the best steels. Therefore you will use it for a long time without requiring frequent sharpening. there seems to be an optimal procedure for every alloy (provided its heat treated to industial standards). Its hard enough, tough enough, and stain-resistant enough. Its a good balance between all three attributes, being relatively hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. I was guessing 5.5 based on your rating of CPM-154. 14C28N knife will dull faster, but it is easy to sharpen. AEB-L When describing the characteristics of a steel, a few common attributes are commonly talked about. On the positive side, they are very easy to forge and grind. 440B 14C28N. In the context of a knife this would be chipped edges or broken knives. A2 is a tool steel renowned for toughness. In use, its very similar to 440C and VG-10. D2 will go through a lot more rope at 58-59 hard than AEB-L will at 64 hard. Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ This is especially important for chopping knives and for knives with thin edges for enhanced cutting ability and edge retention. SPY27 https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/. Vanadium carbides are very large with conventional production of steels but are very small with powder metallurgy. im led to believe tha the melting procedure is more important with these steels than the exact composition. This is an American-made powder steel. That says to me theres a measurable abrasive quality to wood for sure. This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. Here, we will discuss edge retention, toughness, ease of sharpening, and corrosion resistance. 14C28N knives are easier to sharpen than D2 knives. However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. All Rights Reserved. However, even steel with the best corrosion resistance can rust without proper care. Here, read on for an in-depth look at common knife steels as well as the best knife steels around. You also reported 8.6 for 440A in that post, compared to 8.5 in this post. There has been some internet controversy over the grinding and heat treat of this steel. Are you okay with that? Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. The steel is susceptible to overheating during hardening do not overheat. Take a look at this edge retention test. Its an update of its 12C27 and 13C26 steels, which were developed for use in shaving razors. 1. I wont go into detail about those here. Therefore, if your priority is a knife with the best toughness on the market, you can never go wrong with the varieties of 14C28N. How long sharpen? CPM-S90V is my favorite in the high edge retention category because of its decent toughness. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. 14C28N is a stainless steel that was developed specifically for use in knives. I like it. All of the experiments shown below are possible thanks to supporters. Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. Its very similar chemically to RWL 34 and ATS-34. 14C28N VS D2 The two sheets of steel are comparable in terms of toughness and corrosion resistance. But if you want to know what the coolest blade material is, for my money, SM100is it. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. S45VN The both blade are equally wear resistant. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. Wusthof Classic Ikon 8-Inch Cooks Knife Review, Victorinox Fibrox Straight Edge Chefs Knife Review, What is Cts bd1 steel? Fine-carbide knife steels. But in use, Ive found nothing that withstands the abuse that 3V can take. BD1 isnt terribly hard but sharpens easily. This showed that XHP and ZDP-189 have significantly lower corrosion resistance than other stainless steels. It should get an ultra-sharp edge for easy cutting, hold the edge for long for easy maintenance, and have a sturdy and ergonomic handle for comfort and to prevent accidents. Dr. Thomas you spoke of using a different media for cutting test and I have some extra veg tan leather and was wondering what are the parameters of the leather you need? It also improves edge retention and strength. Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. EDGE RETENTION . The performance of these blades are equally admirable. So presumably, wear resistance would be in the 3.5-4 range and toughness in the 5.5-6 range. Let the job at hand be your guide. CPM154 is a truly superior steel. The definition of a quality knife differs among users because of varied needs, but there are basic properties that every quality knife must have. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. Only a skilled blacksmith can make Damascus steels, so they tend to be expensive. In reality hardly difference. You cannot leave your 14C28N knives in water overnight and expect them not to rust. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. If the properties of a knife meet your knife needs and it has the above characteristics, then it qualifies as a quality knife. Heat treatment refers to the heating and cooling steps employed to achieve your knifes proper balance of attributes. I love reading through all the data youve gathered and making note of all the trends (Im a physical organic chemist). Lots of information is still specific to this article, however. Steel softens as tempering temperature increases, but certain steels see an increase in hardness in a certain higher temperature range such as shown below for high speed steels that are designed for this type of tempering: This high temperature tempering can be done for several reasons, such as better resistance to overheating during grinding, or because a coating will be applied to the knife that requires a high temperature. Note:There is a powder-metal version called CPM154 thats purer than the non-powder version, making it easier for knifemakers to grind. I was wondering if the 14c28n sample was also prequenched like the AEB-L toughness samples? Divers, sailors, and anglers need knives that will resist corrosion above all else. By that I dont mean that a better heat treatment is not possible, but that major mistakes in heat treating are avoided. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. GearJunkie Copyright 2013 2023. I have an article that lists off the major mistakes often made in heat treating. Vg10 and cpms45vn same toughness at same hardness ? I guess the question is whether toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases. It can dull your edge, cause pitting, and damage the structural integrity of your knife. Everyone has their own opinion on what they deem the best folding EDC knife. MC66 There are so many interactions between them that predictions are difficult without modeling software. Knives are one of our oldest tools, so it makes sense that they have evolved into thousands of styles since the first person chipped one out of stone. 14C28N steel holds good hardness. In this article, we will discuss the characteristics, pros, cons, and differences between 14C28N and D2 knives to help to make the right choice. This is a powder-metal steel also produced by Crucible. Steels that are higher in hardness and wear resistance are usually lower in toughness. Both steels are popular among knife manufacturers and both have their strengths and weaknesses. Now that is power planer blades, but the principle stands, less carbon and alloy isnt the best for wood working and Id use a steel like 26C3 (1.25% C .30%Cr) for my hand tools and temper them to around 62 hard and use the best angle for wood shaving, not the best angle for cutting rope. The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. 12C27 The biggest change that is seen with powder metallurgy in measured properties is in regards to toughness. Contact me if you have any questions or input! Most of the midrage ifferings have 14c28n, how does it compare to d2 in your experience? Spyderco announced Native 5 Salt with magnacut, but I saw test of magnacut with salt water and it grows corrosionso Salt with magnacut could be a flop. Socould you please clarify which steel is the outlier and which is the line>. AEB-L and 14C28N also have moderate edge retention though of course much lower than vanadium-alloyed powder metallurgy steels like S30V or M390. You cant look at only the chromium content of the steel to know the level of corrosion resistance. Different heat treats have emerged over the years, but one has risen to the top as the best:Bob Doziers D2. On the other hand, in d2 air-hardness steel, you cant differentially temper the blade-like other high carbon steel because the steel can also be challenging to sharpen. AR-RPM9 D2 is another medium-range tool steel. 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday The pictures below show the microstructures of the three classes of stainless steel on the market. And for high toughness you want little or no carbide. are after the ratings. But as the market has grown and newer steels have come out, it has fallen in price and prestige. Privacy Policy. Its actually quite good, low-cost steel that performs like midprice steel. Here, youll learn the different factors that go into each steel, ratings for a wide variety of steel alloys, and youll get some recommendations for types of knives different types of steel work well for. High Alloy Tool Steel and High Speed Steel Ratings. In general, the more carbide the steel has and the larger the carbides the lower is the toughness. A mirror finish is the best at resisting corrosion and a rough finish means rust and corrosion is more likely. If you want to learn more than keep reading past the ratings. It's like the difference between average 420HC and Buck's 420HC with the Bos heat treatment, only from a better starting point. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . In a pocket knife the total amount of steel is rather small. The 8Cr13MoV vs D2 debate. Monday-Friday Not every element is shown in the charts. I would suggest adding a second axis to the ratings charts that show the data values that the 0-10 ratings are based on (unnotched charpy impact energy, 1% saltwater , Total cards cut, etc.). They were two different tests (different batch of steel, different person heat treating, etc). (Some crazy folks clean their Swiss Army knivesin adishwasher. grivory So the major tradeoff is in how much carbide you want in the steel for edge retention without dropping toughness too much for the intended knife and user. There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. Both knives come at an affordable price for high-end knives. But among the steels youll find at Cabelas and the like, this is a pretty good choice. If you have a favorite steel, rock on! It has excellent edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. And easy to sharpen in our experience; and that will get an excellent razor edge that lasts for a reasonable price of time. I made most of my leather knives from O1v (O1 with .20V) that I hold at 1475 for 15 mins and quench in 120-130 F AAA oil and Kevin Cashen is where those parameters came from btw. Im going to give the ratings first and then give more explanation about how the ratings were created. Mid-Range Steels 154CM D2 N690 VG-10 CTS BD1N 14C28N A2 1095 O1 H1 Budget Steels 440C CTS-BD1 440A 420 8Cr13MoV AUS-8 The Steels Should you continue to scroll further, you may find yourself lost in a seemingly endless list of knife steel wealth and knowledge. Note that corrosion is detrimental for the cutting edge. Should have a first draft by the end of next week. The old rule in steels used to be corrosion resistance, toughness, or hardness choose two. But SM100 (the trade name for Nitinol 60) threw that out the window when introduced to the cutlery world. Working closely with our factory the heat treating of this steel has been perfected resulting in excellent performance for the price. Aluminum oxide is used in most common sharpening stones and it is softer than vanadium carbide, which makes sharpening high vanadium steels more difficult. Read more. These steels offer a great balance of characteristics that work well, from big choppers to thin slicers. Corrosion is not just about cosmetics and rusting, however, but can also affect edge performance. Thats why it easy to work and looks nice. This is also a powder-metal steel produced by American steel company Crucible. I always thought VG10 to be way more chippy/less tough compared cpms45vn. Steel with high wear resistance is more costly to manufacture, as the knife company goes through more abrasives to grind the knives. 14C28N steel also has excellent wear resistance due to its high chromium content. How would n680 compare to m690? Sandvik 14C28N steel offers excellent corrosion resistance, exceptional toughness, good edge retention, and is easier to sharpen. -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? 1.4116 Liquid steel is sprayed through a tiny nozzle, solidifying into a powder. D2 steel Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. Looks like there is no reason to us it over 420HC. Cronidur 30 The steel falls under the Sandvik series of steels and makes one of the 7 steel grades in this family including 12C27M, 14C28N, 13C26, and others. The most significant cost increase comes from powder metallurgy, used to create most of the expensive knife steels. For example, below is a video comparing a 1095 ESEE knife at 55-57 Rc and a MagnaCut knife at 62.5 Rc, both with the same edge angle. D2 is a tool steel used in industrial settings. Not as tough as the best carbon steels, it's tougher than most . Now 14c28n is IMO the best budget steel out there. D2 steel offers better edge retention and wear resistance than 14C28N. While higher hardness does lead to improved edge retention the bigger reason to have higher hardness is for resisting edge deformation. I feel like it sharpens as easy as D2. High Speed steels are a subset that have significant additions of Mo and/or W that makes them resist softening when they are used for machining operations. Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. Theres still a lot of misinformation being pushed by influencers especially in knife steel rankings. However, many kinds of wood are REALLY tough and very hard on blades. That provides 14% Chromium and offers excellent corrosion resistance. Poor heat treatment can make a knife too hard, too soft, hard to sharpen, easy to deform, or cause other issues. Unfortunately a high amount of it decreases strength. The ratings I have are for an optimal heat treatment. Most steels use carbon to increase hardness, but 14C28N uses nitrogen, boosting hardness without the normal penalty of increased corrosion. [Steel Knife Review], What is 14c28n steel? Larrin, thank you for this. VG 10 Steel, https://knifebasics.com/author/freelancer/, How To Choose Between The 14C28N And The D2, 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? Despite its wonderful performance, XHP is actually not terribly expensive compared to other high-end, all-around performers. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. Less expensive, conventionally produced steels include VG-10, D2, 154CM, N690, and 440C. On the other hand the professional performing blade steels sharpen to a razor edge and hold the edge for an extended use. 440A Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. Im a woodworker and Im interested in making better performing plane irons and chisels. Steels without these attributes are much less costly. Also known as Z-Finit, Zapp produces this steel in America. They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. If youre having trouble finding the steel you want, see if another manufacturer makes something much like it. Any idea where it would be on the hardness and toughness scales? This means consumers should be able to maintain these quality knives at home. Another very tough and highly wear-resistant steel grade is the D2. Maxamet and Rex 121 are so extreme in terms of wear resistance and edge retention that I rated them higher than 10 because otherwise it throws off the ratings for everything else. Which one is right for you? Hi Jimmie, thanks for your comments. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. 440C steel The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. S110V has improved corrosion resistance at the cost of some toughness compared to S90V. Importing steel from Europe to the USA, or vice versa, generally increases the cost. Phone Hours (MST) Not to sound like a ship, but these two knife inspiration makes this an eye-catching knife. In that case the difficulty in sharpening would be the inverse of the edge retention rating. This is a non-powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. Instead, Vargo titanium uses a unique material called sintered titanium-ceramic alloy. https://i0.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/stainless-toughness-10-19-21.jpg?w=757&ssl=1 It's more often pitted against the VG10 since both are widely popular high-carbon stainless steel grades. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. Hit like and all t. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. We all have our preference, but overall, preference leans towards the pocket knife with a clip. But its lightyears ahead of the alternatives, specifically titanium-bladed knives. Vancron has a very fine microstructure so it would be tough to beat. There is an acceptable range for every element so this doesnt mean that 1084 will always have exactly 0.84% carbon. Anybody know how the Sandvik stacks up against all these other steels. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. The hardenable grade of titanium (Beta C Titanium) reaches up to 45 or so rc. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. Thanks in advance, Simon, For hard use everyday cutting in a packing company, Everything from fome, cardboard, tape, thick plastics, And plastic wrap that is against metal. Thank you for such a great article! BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. CPM-3V is a powder metallurgy contender in this category. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Its so high in hardness that Maxamet knives usually ship with desiccating packages. the problem is in the innumerable combinations of grades, grains sizes and coatings available. Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. On the other hand, edge stability in terms of micro chipping and edge folding is also good. Ruike Sandvik 14c28n vs D2 looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. Cookie Notice 14C28N is a type of high-performance stainless steel used in knife-making. This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). These steels are the good old hard-working steels. My test is for comparing different steels, not necessarily for a go/no go test for saltwater applications. The steel is an air-hardness tool steel that is considered semi-stainless because of its high chromium content. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. If thats true why do you include it in the stainless steel category? For example, the Si space is blank for several of the carbon steels because they have a relatively wide acceptable range, not because the element isnt added. You can read more about these factors in my book Knife Engineering. But if when youre searching for tough steel for your outdoor experience camping, or hunting, it would be perfect steel but not the best choice therere other steels with better than toughness that would suit your usage. then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. On the flip side D2 steel is much harder than other steels in this category such as 154CM or ATS-34 and as a result holds its edge a little better. The D2 version is heavier and harder, but doesn't cut as smoothly. Several factors arent related to the steel you choose but seriously affect the nature of your knifes performance. I have not provided a rating for ease in sharpening. You showed some pictures in this article of the effect on what we might call "effective toughness" of thinner edge angles vs thicker edges in the same steel at the same hardness. I have two quick questions, blue steel Read about my tests in this article. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent.