And why would they what. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. 44-H Links. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. So give us a call now. Really appreciate it. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. Here it is. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. Peter Biello: Well yeah. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. I'm Peter B yellow. Patrick Tate: Yes. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. Chartered: 1973 . Yes. So what counts as verifiable evidence? They absolutely do. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. And so. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. Theres tracks everywhere. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. I'll send it to you. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. I found a second scat scent both to him. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. 1957. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . David Erler says some of them probably have. I'm Peter Biello. John you're on the air. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. On Oct. 10, he gave a slide talk called "Wild Cats of New Hampshire," which included the bobcat and the lynx. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. The Eastern mountain lion is extinct in the eastern United States and Canada, but in 2011, a . Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. And it was unmistakable. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. Sam. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. They just end up in these places. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. A lot of times. Phone number 1 800. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. Like why would you want one wildlife. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. Patrick Tate: Well. If so that's for us as an agency. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. Well within there. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. Your support makes this news available to everyone. It's bigger but bigger and better world. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. I can't. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events So what a neat experience. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. She is renowned for tracking. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. Caller: Yeah. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. Less successful males roam further. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. Contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. m from a weed family Automotive on store Street in Concord is serving the Concord area families automotive needs since 1995. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. There was no sign of it. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. Have a photo. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. Rick van de Poll: Yes. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. No that's a little bit outside the range. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. Well let's talk a little bit about that. Share. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. John. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. So. Peter Biello: Wow. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. Have you seen one. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. How far were you from this cat. Thanks for your call. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. Mike you're on the air. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. Give today. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. Why are there so many false positives? Numerous scat and fur specimens have been turned in as part of mountain lion report investigations; DNA identification has shown these submitted samples to be from domestic dog, coyote, bobcat andraccoon. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. 50 feet above the most. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries.